User talk:4kant,6/Comparison of various dijålekts
The first sentence already seems rather unintelligible though :o --OuWTB 10:50, tìtsotsíxë 23, 2015 (UTC) :In your dijålekt, it does indeed :P Btw, Semyon and I are on the Burenian chat :o --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 10:52, tìtsotsíxë 23, 2015 (UTC) Questions To Qytokant: * Most of it is clear following your quite exhaustive phonology :o It seems there is a devoicing of sonorants near voiceless obstruents. Is there a phonological difference between /l̥/ and /ł/? :o * /ɐ̀/ is takavíhki, though that's not really a question I guess :o * /ˈúˑʝo/. Why /ʝ/ and not /j/? /ʝ/ is not next to an /i/ in this case :o * There seem to be almost no reductions of unstressed words. Please elaborate :o To Bart: * /ɬl̥i:t:ẽ/ shows a takavíhki change from /sl̥/ to /ɬl̥/. Is that always the case? :o * /kjẽðẽnð/ and /kul̥taiðãn/ show nasalisation which isn't written down (unlike /askĩnaiθ/). When is it written down, is there a logic? :o * Also, why is /atjãŋna/ nasalized and /tɬenaɬ/ not? :o * Also, why you don't use stress? :o --OuWTB 17:32, tìtsotsíxë 23, 2015 (UTC) * Yes, l̥ vs. ɬ :P * That's indeed not a question :P * That seems to be a mistake. Thanks for pointing it out :o * Uxykascardijålekt does not really have reduction of unstressed vowels, but rather of low-tone vowels :o --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 09:33, tìtsotsíxë 24, 2015 (UTC) So is it correct to assume a mora timed stress pattern in this case? :o (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isochrony) --OuWTB 10:33, tìtsotsíxë 24, 2015 (UTC) Yes :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 11:19, tìtsotsíxë 24, 2015 (UTC) :You got a helluva takavíhki dijålekt there :o --OuWTB 11:21, tìtsotsíxë 24, 2015 (UTC) Looks like Svârjëdijålekt is the only dijålekt that is slightly pronounceable :o --OuWTB 11:44, tìtsotsíxë 24, 2015 (UTC) :You can't pronounce your own dijålekt? :P --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 13:00, tìtsotsíxë 24, 2015 (UTC) ::Bartdijålekt is pronounceable as well though :o --DAH BUY000R! (wall | ) :::I tend to be unable to pronounce nasal vowels though :o --OuWTB 08:33, tìtsotsíxë 25, 2015 (UTC) ::::So you can't pronounce Gęčokaxʔa either? :'( --QytokantFRÅGOR??? 11:28, tìtsotsíxë 25, 2015 (UTC) :::::No :'( --OuWTB 16:17, tìtsotsíxë 25, 2015 (UTC) :::::You're being takavíhki. :P --DAH BUY000R! (wall | ) @OWTB: # In general *sl became ł, but in some examples it kept sl and later it shifted to łl. # Syllable final -n nasalizes the vowel before it. In askįnaið that is not the case, so it is written down. # My point above. # Because stress rarely falls on another syllable then the first. :o Bart K (talk) 16:48, tìtsotsíxë 25, 2015 (UTC) : :o --OuWTB 17:01, tìtsotsíxë 25, 2015 (UTC) Kòbdijålekt Our only eastern dijålekt in this comparison is relatively far from the others. It's even further from Uškár than Svârjëdijålekt :o --OuWTB 12:19, fernósåmar 10, 2015 (UTC) :I hope you're not surprised by that. :P My vision for the Eastern dijalekts is that they're influenced by some takaviki substrate, especially in grammar and less so in vocabulary. The dijalekts have three sources of vocabulary: native words that can be traced back to Proto-Eastern, loanwords from Western dijalekts, and loanwords from Takavikian from the time of Proto-Eastern onwards. For Kob, the ratio is about 45:45:10. For Tapasdijalekt, it's about 10:80:10. For Timemasterdijalekt, it's 20:20:60. :P --Semyon 12:39, fernósåmar 10, 2015 (UTC) :: :o How would you explain the substrate that seems to be present in Mèłanydijålekt, as well as Bartdijålekt and Svârjëdijålekt? :o --OuWTB 12:49, fernósåmar 10, 2015 (UTC) :::It's not my job to explain that. :P You can sort out the takavikiness of Western dijalekts yourself. :P --Semyon 12:55, fernósåmar 10, 2015 (UTC) ::::We should make word lists of substrate words in the western and respectively eastern dijålekts, so we can compare to see if they are from the same substrate language (family) :o --OuWTB 13:12, fernósåmar 10, 2015 (UTC) :::::You want to reconstruct Proto-Takavikian? :o --Semyon 13:34, fernósåmar 10, 2015 (UTC) ::::::Mayhaps. We could use Neotakavíhkianska as our superłátoskìstandarddijålekt :o --OuWTB 13:41, fernósåmar 10, 2015 (UTC) :::::::I was going to say , but as I mentioned in my 1239 comment neotakavikianska is basically the same as timemasterdijalekt. :o So maybe it's not a good idea after all. :o --Semyon 13:44, fernósåmar 10, 2015 (UTC) ::::::::Well, if so, then Timemasterdijålekt is actually not a Burenian dijålekt but summing else and undeveloped :o --OuWTB 13:46, fernósåmar 10, 2015 (UTC) :::::::::Klihef, I think you sum up the situation quite nicely. :P --Semyon 13:48, fernósåmar 10, 2015 (UTC) ::::::::::But still, we need to find out if the eastern and western substrates are similar, to be able to determine whether the minority western dijålekts are actually takavíhki, or whether they preserve old netakavíhki features :o --OuWTB 13:53, fernósåmar 10, 2015 (UTC) :::::::::::I think they're probably takaviki regardless of whether the substrates or similar or not. --Semyon 13:57, fernósåmar 10, 2015 (UTC) ::::::::::::We need to do this on a scientific method though :o --OuWTB 13:59, fernósåmar 10, 2015 (UTC) :::::::::::::Alright. To start you off, the following words from the Kob text are Takavikian loanwords: zarhiduk, dukfar, ilpuk, ehejuk, jork. :o --Semyon 14:51, fernósåmar 10, 2015 (UTC) ::::::::::::::They mean summing? :o --OuWTB 14:54, fernósåmar 10, 2015 (UTC) :::::::::::::::I guess that could be important. :o Respectively: argue, strong, wrap, make (as in force), warm (as in temperature, not clothing, which is dlhen). --Semyon 15:00, fernósåmar 10, 2015 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::Jorki based on York? :o --OuWTB 15:10, fernósåmar 10, 2015 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::Probably a subconscious combination of that (it is hot here atm) and Russian жаркий. :P --Semyon 15:14, fernósåmar 10, 2015 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::That ís actually takavíhki :o --OuWTB 15:17, fernósåmar 10, 2015 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::Speaking of loanwords, in Sāracdijålekt, which is eastern and is the only developed Sāracdijålekt, there are some words and/or derivations common with Kob and some new Takavíhkian loanwords existence of which I don't doubt but I am too lazy to find them at the moment :P --DAH BUY000R! (wall | ) :::::::::::::::::::: :o --OuWTB 14:42, fernósåmar 12, 2015 (UTC) Questions on Kòb #Many vowels seem to come in pairs. I'm I right to assume that the lower versions only occur before the stressed syllable, f.e. /ɛ/ and /e/? #How is stress triggered? Unlike most Burenian dijålekts, there does not seem to be a first-stress policy or a tonal stress policy. #/k/ is pronounced /c/ in front of front-vowels? :o --OuWTB 10:54, fernósåmar 13, 2015 (UTC) Answers: #Indeed; the reduced/lower forms of /a e i o/ are /ə ɛ ɪ ɔ/. The latter occur, as you say, only before the stressed syllable. /u/ doesn't have a reduced form. #The stress falls on the root. In the case this has multiple syllables, the stress is on the final one. #Yes. :o --Semyon 11:00, fernósåmar 13, 2015 (UTC) Replies: # :'( # That is takavíhki though. Can we assume some kind of substrate influence here? How does this relate to the stress in Timemasterdijålekt? :o # :o --OuWTB 11:02, fernósåmar 13, 2015 (UTC)